Some Mage builds

FrostFire bolt build, 2 points left over to go where ever you would like
http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=8&tal=00000000000000000000000000000023050300123033300531203003512033030310030000000000000000
(good points include less hit rating needed due to precision, high crit bonus and damage bonus modifiers from both Fire and Frost trees)

Torment the weak Fireball spam build
http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=8&tal=23002403210003000000000000000000550320123032300530203003510000000000000000000000000000
(Highest DPs build, but depends on high hit rating, high damage and high crit to be fully effective)

Frostbolt spam build
http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=8&tal=23002400310003000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000533033310232100230152201350
(Good for both raid dps and solo play, overall damage output lower than FFB and Fire builds, but greater survivability, W/E gives mana regen, coupled with gearing correctly and glyphing correctly W/E is able to be almost continuously active if no raid wide aoe is in effect from boss etc)

This is a follow up from a conversation in VoA earlier

Thanks for that. Definately going to look at the 1st one, if only because my hit rating is dire

Probs sunday now though as working all day tomorrow and then late saturday too.

and where exactly is the arcane build? Because that IS a viable build >

If you really want one then I'll edit the post and put one in juuuust for you , but it wont be until tomorrow as I have to go to work now

After spending the best part of an hour looking into what the most viable arcane builds are it seems apparent that NONE of the top mages in the top guilds in the world are using arcane as a deep spec, most use arcane to fill in and to get down as far as Torment the Weak :S
Of the very VERY few I have found using Arcane still the two main builds seem to be 68/3/0 or 57/3/11. 68/3/0 Im presuming is a reasonably good PVP build as it can contain some nice anti-caster tricks ( massive spell resistance and instant invis ), the other build seems to be the build from a couple patches ago which was flavour of the month for a while, but has since lost its ranking as highest DPS build and has also been surpassed by 18/0/53 at high end gear/content :s

Just going by the numbers and by what lots of well respected mages have tested here, so dont shoot the messenger just 'cos you like Arcane but it really isnt too viable anymore

Well see my problem here is that in my experience arcane is viable... I mean I am beating other people in dps with it.
And its rare and far between that people even manage to get near my dps at equal level. But yeah I suppose that counts for nothing. And I wouldn't say arcane isn't viable if I wasn't beating people with it. I'm not a super T8 geared mofo mage that can oneshot you with eye lazers.

Also for DPS output Arcane is higher dps than frostfire. But thats just my point of view anyways. Suppose i just play arcane good.

ahm! noob question but how efficient is focus magic?
i mean, it depends on another crit to get a crit bonus...
and for noob question no' 2:
"W/E gives mana regen, coupled with gearing correctly and glyphing correctly W/E is able to be almost continuously active"
w/e is water elemental yes? and what exactly would you define as gearing and glyphing correctly?

Focus Magic is VERY efficient, simple cast gives another player a 3% crit buff for 30 mins, each time they crit you get a 10 second buff of 3% increased crit, so My mage who raid buffed runs about 41% crit, plus another 3% from another mages focus magic = 44% crit, 44% chance to give that other mage a 3% crit increase per cast, plus Ill get another 3% ontop of the 44% if they crit when I have focus magic on them, so for a good portion of a boss fight ill be running 47% ish crit for 10 second intervals, Fireballs take about 2.5 seconds to cast,so thats 4 casts that i have to crit during the 10 second window, half of which in theory should crit ( almost), keeping the 3% buff up on the other player, also allowing them to have the buff up on me alot more often...Couple that with Hotstreak for instant pyro's means a very decent DPS increase.

Also with regards to the W/E ( yes water elemental), glyphed and talented makes it a great pet http://thottbot.com/i42754 glyph reduces the CD on summoning it by 30 seconds, speccing in frost tree right brings the CD down even more -
3 min standard CD on W/E, - 30 seconds from glyph, - 15 seconds from talents leaves you with a CD of 2 min 15 seconds, take 20% from that ( 20% due to Cold As Ice talent ) leaves you with a 1 min 48 second CD, W/E is up for 45 seconds at a time, leaving basically one minute between summons, now factor in Cold Snap aswell and youll have 2 summons available one after another, wait one minute and have another one. W/E, on a boss fight, should be out almost all the time apart from that one minute break and maybe 30-60 seconds on CD if the fight goes on longer than normal. ( yes I know some fights like KT can last longer, but thats when you work out rotations on CD's and it all gets more technical and something I realyl dont have time or inclination at the moment to go into )

I hope that answers your questions thoroughly enough

thanks alot.
wel it it did mostly.
you have'nt answered about gear but if its too much i would'nt task you
thank you again though.

Hmm also regarding mana regeneration. I have 50% mana regen in combat from talent and
I can't remember if Mage Armor increases mana regeneration or increases combat mana regeneration.

If Mage Armor does increase combat mana regen, then I have 120% combat mana regen.
Yeah I'm O_o too. Also note that Focus Magic only increases SPELL criticals.

so focus magic is only handy if you travel with another mage?

Ofcourse not, theres Warlocks too. And I'm pretty sure heals are spells... but what do I know? Also elemental shamans. Need I say more?